how many sub species is there in marginated tortoises. I've only heard of Testudo marginata marginata and Testudo marginata sarda. But on Izzy's cites papers it says she is testudo marginata weissingeri.
Is this just a different name for one of the others or is it its own sub-species.
I've heard of the weissingeri but not the sarda. Google seems to think they are all seperate sub species. :yes:
(10-14-2009 09:25 PM)tortoise_dude Wrote: [ -> ]I've heard of the weissingeri but not the sarda. Google seems to think they are all seperate sub species. :yes:
actualy i read the full wikipedia page on marginated torts.
tuns out that wiesengeri is a kind of dwarf species. heres what it says
A population of small and light-colored Marginated Tortoises exists on the southwestern coast of the Peloponnesus, between Kalamata and south of Stoupa. The so-called "Dwarf Marginated Tortoise" was described as a new species Testudo weissingeri, but it is not recognizably distinct phylogenetically. Unlike the Sardinian population, it occupies an extremely restricted range with very arid habitat, and its apomorphies seem related to this. Considering ice age-associated climate and sea level changes, this population is probably not older than a few thousand years; as it is not geographically isolated, it should be considered a local form, and not even a subspecies Testudo marginata weissingeri. It is notable that a similar situation is found in Hermann's Tortoises living in the same region
and heres what is says about sardinians
The Sardinian Marginated Tortoise (Testudo marginata sarda) is the name usually used to separate the population on Sardinia. These tortoises have less strongly bent tiles in the posterior of the carapace, and the posterior of the carapace is almost smooth compared with the saw-like Testudo marginata marginata. Clearly distinct according to morphology and entirely allopatric, it cannot be distinguished by mtDNA cytochrome b and nDNA ISSR sequence analysis.[1] Lineage sorting has not occurred to a considerable degree; consequently, the more geographically isolated Sardinian population is presumably of quite recent origin.
Indeed it appears to derive from a deliberate introduction by humans.[1] Though it is not clear whether this occurred in prehistoric times or more recently, this might be resolved by dating subfossil remains. Sequence evolution at least in mtDNA is known to proceed much more slowly in some turtles and tortoises than in others;[2] the rate of the mitochondrial 12S rRNA gene in Testudo is probably a rather low 1-1.63% per million years (as this fits best the paleobiogeographical situation), limiting the resolution provided by molecular systematics.[3]
An extinct subspecies described as T. marginata cretensis persisted on Crete before the end of the last ice age and perhaps into early historic times
(10-14-2009 09:38 PM)Darren Wrote: [ -> ] (10-14-2009 09:25 PM)tortoise_dude Wrote: [ -> ]I've heard of the weissingeri but not the sarda. Google seems to think they are all seperate sub species. :yes:
actualy i read the full wikipedia page on marginated torts.
tuns out that wiesengeri is a kind of dwarf species. heres what it says
A population of small and light-colored Marginated Tortoises exists on the southwestern coast of the Peloponnesus, between Kalamata and south of Stoupa. The so-called "Dwarf Marginated Tortoise" was described as a new species Testudo weissingeri, but it is not recognizably distinct phylogenetically. Unlike the Sardinian population, it occupies an extremely restricted range with very arid habitat, and its apomorphies seem related to this. Considering ice age-associated climate and sea level changes, this population is probably not older than a few thousand years; as it is not geographically isolated, it should be considered a local form, and not even a subspecies Testudo marginata weissingeri. It is notable that a similar situation is found in Hermann's Tortoises living in the same region
and heres what is says about sardinians
The Sardinian Marginated Tortoise (Testudo marginata sarda) is the name usually used to separate the population on Sardinia. These tortoises have less strongly bent tiles in the posterior of the carapace, and the posterior of the carapace is almost smooth compared with the saw-like Testudo marginata marginata. Clearly distinct according to morphology and entirely allopatric, it cannot be distinguished by mtDNA cytochrome b and nDNA ISSR sequence analysis.[1] Lineage sorting has not occurred to a considerable degree; consequently, the more geographically isolated Sardinian population is presumably of quite recent origin.
Indeed it appears to derive from a deliberate introduction by humans.[1] Though it is not clear whether this occurred in prehistoric times or more recently, this might be resolved by dating subfossil remains. Sequence evolution at least in mtDNA is known to proceed much more slowly in some turtles and tortoises than in others;[2] the rate of the mitochondrial 12S rRNA gene in Testudo is probably a rather low 1-1.63% per million years (as this fits best the paleobiogeographical situation), limiting the resolution provided by molecular systematics.[3]
An extinct subspecies described as T. marginata cretensis persisted on Crete before the end of the last ice age and perhaps into early historic times
I am wondering why prehistoric humans would want to dwarf a species. Is that me being pedantic lol?