Hi all,
I've recently become the new owner of a Herman tortoise. I have a few questions as to how to properly take care of her.

1. What specific diet should I feed her? The expert from the shop I bought her said anything but lettuce, so i've been giving her: watercress, spinach, Mizuna and Rubyred Chard. All from waitroses 'seasonal babyleaf'. People here seem to be Tortoise experts, so I was wondering anything specific to feed her, and where I can get it.

2. She is currently in a Vivarium. It looks similar to this http://reptilium-vivariums.co.uk/Vivarium3.jpg
but it has 4 of those holes in the back instead, and it is 4ft long, by 21, by 18. Is this ok for her, or is there something more suitable?

Temperature inside it is usually around 85 fahrenheit, maximum of 95, lowest 80.

Ground is wood chippings, 6kg worth, cleaned and replaced every 2-3 weeks.

Fresh food and warm water every day.

Bath 1/2 times a week. she usually wees and releases this white stuff when she is in the bath also. Never seems to go in water but apart from when i put her in

I have a 100w red bulb on 24hrs for the night and day, the 50w they gave me wasnt strong enough to keep it at the experts advice temperature of 85-95.
have UV light also, on during day only (12 hours on, 12 off)
She usually sleeps (buries herself) under the little hut.

When she is awake (sleeps A LOT) she usually seems to sunbath under/ near the light source (hottest spot).

She eats perhaps a few leaves every few days, i throw out the day old leaves and give fresh everyday anyway.

Give her Komodo complete holistic tortoise diet 2/3 times a week, only a pinch (3 pellets) a time (soak in water first as its quite hard). Give her Nutrobal once a week, 2 small pinches (doesnt usually eat/ eat little if this is in it).

3. Are there any signs I should watch out for, for the future incase I ever suspect an illness?

4. Thinking about getting a male Herman to keep her company, is it recommended?

5. She is almost always inside the vivarium, hold her when she is awake or let her wonder around the house. Wont introduce her to outside till temperature is 20 celcius +. Is this ok?

6. She is a meditteranean tortoise, so should I spruce the Vivarium up to may it more natural? if so, what and where should i purchase?

I think that is all the questions I can currently think of. I've also uploaded images of the vivarium, food and other things I have for her as well.

Any advice would be great, as I want to be the best carer possible.


Pictures http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i74/Gr...C01192.jpg Lilo
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i74/Gr...C01191.jpg Vivarium
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i74/Gr...C01190.jpg The kit

edit - her name is lilo, if i get a mal, he will be stitch what do you guys think?

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Welcome to the forum

Diet wise i feed mine 70% green's 20% fruit

Vivarium are ok but preferd to be in a open top for humidity reasons.
Mine is in a bigger verison then yours.. im currently designing a new open top home.

Signs of illness? runny nose ? beak getting to long , shed too much skin .. im sure others will fill in more :0

Male is a good idea , i have a female/male and she has laid egg's.. i might be lucky this time! fingers crossed

Summer time you could buy a run for the outside and she can be out in that when its a nice day?

Could put a few rocks in to make it more intersting for her.

Quote:1. What specific diet should I feed her? The expert from the shop I bought her said anything but lettuce, so i've been giving her: watercress, spinach, Mizuna and Rubyred Chard. All from waitroses 'seasonal babyleaf'. People here seem to be Tortoise experts, so I was wondering anything specific to feed her, and where I can get it.

I wouldn't use spinach as it's very high in oxalics and can inhibit the uptake of calcium. Obviously this is no good. The recommended diet is a natural diet, dandelions, plantain clover etc, the best site for diet is;
http://www.tortoises.net and a great resource is also; http://www.tortsmad.com
Obviously at this time of year there is little in the way of natural food available so your best bet is to supplement the diet with a salad bag such as florette crispy salad (Comes in bags, be sure it is the crispy variety)

Quote:2. She is currently in a Vivarium. It looks similar to this http://reptilium-vivariums.co.uk/Vivarium3.jpg
but it has 4 of those holes in the back instead, and it is 4ft long, by 21, by 18. Is this ok for her, or is there something more suitable?

If it is very well ventilated it wouldn't be a problem, however, unless it is modified this isn't really achievable. I would turn it on it's back and remove the glass. Obviously it'd need to be lined in some way to stop the substrate falling through the vents- but this is the easiest way to adapt a viv into a tort table.

Quote:Temperature inside it is usually around 85 fahrenheit, maximum of 95, lowest 80.

Ground is wood chippings, 6kg worth, cleaned and replaced every 2-3 weeks.

Fresh food and warm water every day.

Basking spot temps should be 30-35oc, with cooler end temps being 21oc or less.

Quote:Bath 1/2 times a week. she usually wees and releases this white stuff when she is in the bath also. Never seems to go in water but apart from when i put her in

Keep up with the baths- it's very important that small torts are well hydrated. The white stuff is urates and completely normal. It is the expulsion of excess uric acid. It should be of a creamy consistency.

Quote:I have a 100w red bulb on 24hrs for the night and day, the 50w they gave me wasnt strong enough to keep it at the experts advice temperature of 85-95.
have UV light also, on during day only (12 hours on, 12 off)
She usually sleeps (buries herself) under the little hut.

I don't like the red lights as tortoises cannot see the light given off. This is confusing as they like to physically see the lights to mimic the natural sun-shine. Do you have a UVB light too?

Quote:When she is awake (sleeps A LOT) she usually seems to sunbath under/ near the light source (hottest spot).

I'm almost certain this is because of the red bulb. I would change it for a clear bulb ASAP. She may sleep more than usual at this time of year, so some encouragement could be given to get her up in the mornings (perhaps a bath). Keep an eye on over-feeding because otherwise she'll put on too much weight during the period she should be hibernating in

Quote:Give her Komodo complete holistic tortoise diet 2/3 times a week, only a pinch (3 pellets) a time (soak in water first as its quite hard). Give her Nutrobal once a week, 2 small pinches (doesnt usually eat/ eat little if this is in it).

Do you have an ingredients list for this? I don't reccomend pellets for various reasons. Andy Highfield recently posted this which describes it in depth;

Quote:"Science shows us why pellets are unsuitable for hindgut fermenters such as tortoises (and iguanas, Corucia skinks, uromastyx). Pellets lack long-stem fiber, the right ratio of insoluble:soluble fibers,adequate water, and cognitive stimulation through texture, color,and odor. In our professional opinions, pellets for reptiles that are hindgut fermenters risk dehydration, digestive upsets, and nutritional disorders.

We’ve worked in veterinary nutrition for decades, and recommend pelleted diets for domestic animals. But we passionately believe there is no place for pelleted diets in herpetoculture of herbivores. These unique animals
deserve better"

I suppose you could dismiss this as just another opinion, but before doing so, it might be worth taking on board who actually said this.

It was Susan Donoghue MS, VMD, American College of Veterinary Nutrition and David S. Kronfield DVM, PhD, American College of Veterinary Nutrition, American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine.

Quote:3. Are there any signs I should watch out for, for the future incase I ever suspect an illness?

Be sure that her nares and eyes are clear, she is bright and alert, and carries herself high rather than dragging her shell along. Also, watch out for sudden changes in behaviour, or any physical trauma. Obviously she should be active during the summer, but at this time of a year she will be considerably less active because she will want to hibernate. I find that when over-wintering tortoises- increasing lights in the enclosure (I use an energy saving light bulb... just to make it brighter without giving off more heat!)

Quote:4. Thinking about getting a male Herman to keep her company, is it recommended?

At her size she can't be accuratley sexed- it would be a gamble buying a male incase you ended up with a male and a female. The female would get completely stressed out. There is also the issue of quarintine which would need to be addressed

Quote:5. She is almost always inside the vivarium, hold her when she is awake or let her wonder around the house. Wont introduce her to outside till temperature is 20 celcius +. Is this ok?

I wouldn't let her wonder around the house. It is very dangerous both for your own hygine and for the tortoise's safety. I provide my tortoises with an outdoor shelter (in the form of a shed.. but this can be replecated for smaller torts) and provide a heat lamp in. They stay there year round this way, and obviously they get locked in the shed when it comes to wind-down time so I can wind them down for hibernation.

Quote:6. She is a meditteranean tortoise, so should I spruce the Vivarium up to may it more natural? if so, what and where should i purchase?

To make it more natural, I would change the substrate to a mix of soil and play sand (Top soil and childrends sterelised sand) You will need to water this similarly to how you would water a plant, as when it is dried it will irritate the eyes. The top will go naturally 'crispy' under the light too. I would also incude rocks, stones, and even the odd plant in pots to break up lines of site. Halfed plant pots make great hidey holes. I wouldn't reccomend fake plants incase they try to eat them.

(01-13-2009 05:59 PM)AdamSoS Wrote:  Welcome to the forum

Diet wise i feed mine 70% green's 20% fruit

Vivarium are ok but preferd to be in a open top for humidity reasons.
Mine is in a bigger verison then yours.. im currently designing a new open top home.

Signs of illness? runny nose ? beak getting to long , shed too much skin .. im sure others will fill in more :0

Male is a good idea , i have a female/male and she has laid egg's.. i might be lucky this time! fingers crossed

Summer time you could buy a run for the outside and she can be out in that when its a nice day?

Could put a few rocks in to make it more intersting for her.

I wouldn't advocate that you keep a male and a female together incase he stresses her out. Stress may not be completely evident to a human, unless you know what you are looking for. Do they get time apart?

Also, I wouldn't feed any fruit in a med tortoise's diet. It is very high in sugar which upsets the gut flora, and they wouldn't find it in the wild Just a thought

Well i bath them on there own which is probably the only time there apart. I've always kept an eye on them to make sure they did not fight or the male keep trying to have his wikid way. But they acutally get on quite well and sleep togther in the same spot. I will move the male into my old viv if you recomend it though.

And with the fruit.. i stand corrected then

I might build them a Josh Shrine for there home in memory of the great savor ! hehe

We'll have no such shrine LOL! I don't profess to be an expert- I have only been keeping for about 7 years, however, In this time I've taken the TT institute course, and done other things, a lot of it has been trial and error I would always keep the viv for back-up. Perhaps when building your outdoor enclosure you could make a divide that can be slid in easily. I'd suggest perhaps a few months of the year keeping them seperatley. Just because over-breeding can cause terrible problems. I've seen it happen between many 'experts' and the hatchlings have began to suffer unfortunatley

Sorry if it seems as though I was being horrible to you. I just have the torts best interests at heart.

Quote:Obviously at this time of year there is little in the way of natural food available so your best bet is to supplement the diet with a salad bag such as florette crispy salad (Comes in bags, be sure it is the crispy variety)

I have never even seen 1/10 of what was listed on that site :S Theres no dandilions around my area at the moment, went around an hour last night through the local park and around my area trying to find them. Same with plantain, only thing I have found is watercress from waitrose, is there a specific bag currently available in any supermarket store I can get her?

Also, I thought they werent allowed lettuce, as it would kill them?

Quote:Basking spot temps should be 30-35oc, with cooler end temps being 21oc or less.

Thats ok then, my daylight bulb is 50w, max temperature it will reach is 27 celc (in this weather) so its a bit weak. I'll invest in a 100w bulb to make sure its always inbetween that temperature for the winter. I have a thermostat also set to 92 fahrenheit.

Quote:I don't like the red lights as tortoises cannot see the light given off. This is confusing as they like to physically see the lights to mimic the natural sun-shine. Do you have a UVB light too?

I do yep, its a reptile gro UVB 10.0 light, that ok?

Quote:Do you have an ingredients list for this? I don't reccomend pellets for various reasons.

The ingredients are as followed: oats,beet pulp, Maize gluten, Maize, Calcium carbonate, Dicalcium phosphate, Lucern, Minerals, Vitamins, glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, Titanium dioxide, contains EU permitted colourants and flavours.

Quote:To make it more natural, I would change the substrate to a mix of soil and play sand (Top soil and childrends sterelised sand) You will need to water this similarly to how you would water a plant, as when it is dried it will irritate the eyes. The top will go naturally 'crispy' under the light too. I would also incude rocks, stones, and even the odd plant in pots to break up lines of site. Halfed plant pots make great hidey holes. I wouldn't reccomend fake plants incase they try to eat them.

Havnt been able to get hold of any of the sand you mentioned, but I will look into getting soil. Wouldnt this make the wood (vivarium) start to rot eventually if i have to keep watering the soil? I'll try find a small plant pot with a plant to add into the vivarium for her. I'll add some rocks and stones also.

I'm currently looking into the tortoise table now, where to put it, the size, what I would put in it, cost etc. I dont have a lot of free time at the moment, with work and university its a bit hectic on my side. I am a bit concerned about putting her outside in the night, as I use to have 2 Guinea pigs and 3 rabbits, but a fox came and got them all, biting through the metal cage! Also, I have quite worried about theft. Neighbourhood is a nice area, but a lot of reports have been going around of kids stealing things in the night.

(01-13-2009 11:25 PM)tortoise_dude Wrote:  Sorry if it seems as though I was being horrible to you. I just have the torts best interests at heart.

lol, no worries, thats why I came here, I want to be a good owner

Well my idea when i put soil down is to put down first seed tray's so the soil isnt acutally touching the wood anyway.

(01-14-2009 05:54 PM)AdamSoS Wrote:  Well my idea when i put soil down is to put down first seed tray's so the soil isnt acutally touching the wood anyway.

A simple yet brilliant idea! I actually feel kind of embarrased for not thinking of that. When I next get paid, I'll start hunting for things I need to buy to make a tortoise table.

I wont take the compliement.. i got told it my self haha.. doh! though im just searching for a few the right size at the moment :0

Show us the aftermath when you finish (pics)

(01-14-2009 05:46 PM)Bazam Wrote:  I have never even seen 1/10 of what was listed on that site :S Theres no dandilions around my area at the moment, went around an hour last night through the local park and around my area trying to find them. Same with plantain, only thing I have found is watercress from waitrose, is there a specific bag currently available in any supermarket store I can get her?

Also, I thought they werent allowed lettuce, as it would kill them?
[\quote]
Lettuce won't kill them, but it doesn't provide much nutrients. (Iceburg is practically water) however some different varieties of lettuce do have better nutritional values, making them a bit more acceptable to use on a temporary basis. However, if fed this year-round it will cause problems. You could always buy some weed seeds and grow them in your house
A bag from the supermarket I would reccomend is Florette Crispy. This isn't suitable for year-round and would cause problems if used year-round, however makes an O-K substitute when Weeds are not available.

Quote:I do yep, its a reptile gro UVB 10.0 light, that ok?

That is perfect. I would lower it though, it needs to be at most 6" away from the tortoise.
[quote]The ingredients are as followed: oats,beet pulp, Maize gluten, Maize, Calcium carbonate, Dicalcium phosphate, Lucern, Minerals, Vitamins, glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, Titanium dioxide, contains EU permitted colourants and flavours.

The oats, maize gluten, beet pulp and the other things make this very unsuitable. I certainly wouldn't use these pellets. The best option would be to throw them away.

Quote:Havnt been able to get hold of any of the sand you mentioned, but I will look into getting soil. Wouldnt this make the wood (vivarium) start to rot eventually if i have to keep watering the soil? I'll try find a small plant pot with a plant to add into the vivarium for her. I'll add some rocks and stones also.

Ordinary top-soil will suffice. I would either line the table with plastic carpet runners (The clear ones that you can put on your floor) or, as Adam says, Seedtrays are also excellent. Plus with a seed tray you could sew seeds in, and have a few 'on the go' to rotate when they get eaten down.

Quote:I'm currently looking into the tortoise table now, where to put it, the size, what I would put in it, cost etc. I dont have a lot of free time at the moment, with work and university its a bit hectic on my side. I am a bit concerned about putting her outside in the night, as I use to have 2 Guinea pigs and 3 rabbits, but a fox came and got them all, biting through the metal cage! Also, I have quite worried about theft. Neighbourhood is a nice area, but a lot of reports have been going around of kids stealing things in the night.

By any chance do you have a guinea pig/rabbit cage. These make excellent tort tables as you can hang lights from the bars, and if used outdoors, also protect from birds etc.
If you don't feel safe leaving the tortoise outside, then he can always be carried inside of a night once he is asleep, and put back outside on warm days. This would be stressful to the tort, but is obviously better than getting eaten or stolen.

Quote:lol, no worries, thats why I came here, I want to be a good owner

You are obviously a very caring person, as you are obviously doing tons of research into tortoises- a lot of people don't bother when they hear of the effort they involve, and just sort of carry on the way they are doing, until they end up with a dead/ill tortoise unfortunatley Well done you! Keep it up